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Mazda RX8 car review - Top Gear - BBC autos

Published on Dec 19, 2008 4,506,980 views

The Top Gear team put the Mazda RX8 through its paces! Watch the official full video in high quality on the BBC Top Gear YouTube channel, and visit http://www.topgear.com for all the latest news and car reviews.

Comments
  • n3kbrEak3r
    n3kbrEak3r 3 года назад Muscle guys died when he said it has a 1.3L with 200hp
  • JokerKrewBMX
    JokerKrewBMX 3 года назад +n3kbrEak3r well one rotor is is equivalent to 3 cylinders, i believe the rx8 uses 2 rotors so basically a 6 cylinders.....but only a 1.3L due to the government regulations in japan as far as i know lol
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад +n3kbrEak3r 2.6 liter when you compare it to Otto or Diesel engines... so 200hp doesn't sound that great really...
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад +BMXJOKER577 Well, if your building a sports car in a country with regulations like that, you can either play by the rules or change them.... awesomely.
  • Cheaper by the thousand
    Cheaper by the thousand 3 года назад +n3kbrEak3r we rather have an engine that isn't throwing pieces of itself out of the exhaust after 80k miles thank you very much
  • Pedro Amado
    Pedro Amado 3 года назад +BMXJOKER577 How the hell is one rotor equivalent to any ammount of cylinders? They are completely different things.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Dick Pickles Well first off, regardless of proprietary nomenclature used by a former manufacturers... Wankel KKM engines have PISTONS... not Rotors. Each piston has 3 sides and 3 combustion chamber faces Each displaces an interior volume minus the unswept volume due to the stroke of the crankshaft. For a Mazda 13B engine for example this volume is 650cc despite the "published displacement" used for tax purposes the actual displacement is 650cc X 6 =  3.9 lites of total displacement Of course only 2 chambers can be on the intake stroke and 2 on the power stroke per revolution of the crankshaft, a '2X conversion formula' is then used when comparing the displacement to, for example a Otto or Diesel type engine. Making the displacement approximately 2.6 liters in relation to current existing standards. I hope that answers your question.
  • Pedro Amado
    Pedro Amado 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer Alright thanks
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Dick Pickles You are very welcome sir, Cheers! 
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @herpherpbrocolli Nah, you'd rather have 50 more horsepower with 3.3 extra liters
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 You can buy a new car with up to 200 hp per liter... and you can't buy a Wankel powered car anymore.. its obsolete now
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Matthew Barnard LOL..!!! A 34 year old, data analyst from Rhode Island with no engineering degree and absolutely no employment experience in the automotive field is the foremost accomplished and definitive "expert" on Wankel KKM-57 engines???  That's rich!
  • Matthew Barnard
    Matthew Barnard 3 года назад (изменено) @The real doktorbimmer I am currently in engineering school at University of Missouri. I can tell you right now that it doesn't necessarily make me any smarter than him regarding Wankel engines. He is a very highly respected member on the RX 8 forums and took the time to create a website combining all the legitimate information on the RX 8 forums into an easy to use website (hence data analyst).  Read this forum as to why you are incorrect http://www.rx7club.com/general-rotary-tech-support-11/rotary-engine-displacement-361207/
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Matthew Barnard Oooh! I see, so being a respected forum member makes him an engineering and automotive expert??? Hahahahaha!!! l
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer Obviously being an internet troll would make him more qualified in your eyes.
  • James Rothwell
    James Rothwell 3 года назад +n3kbrEak3r 211Nm at 5,500RPM is not so good however...
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @James Rothwell True enough, it doesn't generate much torque, but if you look at a rotary's dyno readings yo'll see that after it does generate peak torqu, the torque curve is essentially flat, meaning that there is no significant drop off of torque unlike a piston engine that is naturally aspirated.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @James Rothwell Yup, that works out to a rather pathetic 81 Nm/ltr.. not very impressive at all.. 
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Exactly... that describes one of the major flaws the Wankel KKM design had when it used to be found in automotive applications, the Wankel did not produce significant torque at lower rpm, where its needed the most.. it only made torque on the upper range... when you really need HP and not torque.. its the reason why the Wankel was always limited to lightweight and lightly loaded vehicles.. it simply could not generate sufficient torque for most car models.. a major contributing factor in the designs poor efficiency and why the design is no longer used today.
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer It produces torque figures competitive with most n/a 4 cylinders. Mazda is clearly working on the torque as they have announced that they will be building a rotary powered sports car in the future and they also have developed the 16X rotary engine. They keep it in lighter cars because as you pointed out, lighter cars don't need as much torque to produce similar acceleration numbers. Realistically a rotary would work fine in any car that currently has a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder under the hood, and if you strap a turbocharger on a wankel it'd easily supplant a 6 cylinder. 
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад (изменено) @DoomsdayMelody91 The Wankel when it was in production produced very uncompetitive torque output and torque curves compared to a 4- cylinder Otto type engine. particularly when comparing torque-per-liter output and lower rpm band output.  There has been a lot of speculation.. but no evidence as such.. the RX-Vision was merely a concept vehicle, a 3-dimensional model produced to demonstrate a new or revised styling concept.. not a new powertrain. You seem to be unaware that the 16x engine program was CANCELLED over 7 years ago.. Mazda made several attempts at producing turbocharged production models.. unfortunately.. unlike Otto and Diesel engine turbocharging does not significantly improve the efficiency of the Wankel.. and its poor torque curve and extremely high EGTs also made it a poor choice for turbocharging, particularly where reliability is concerned.  
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад How many 1.3L naturally aspirated 4 cylinders produce 159 ft/lbs of torque at any rpm? Obviously the rotary was competitve with a reciprocating piston engine's torque output per liter. The 13B-REW was an excellent example of a relatively reliable SEQUENTIAL turbocharged rotary engine. Sure, you have to stay up on your maintenance but they easily do 100k miles and are generally considered more reliable than the Renesis motor in the RX 8.  Turbo charging does not improve the fuel efficiency of any engine, the minute you are using boost it will use significantly more fuel. Granted if you stay out of the boost you get the benefit of better fuel economy. Turbocharging DOES improve thermodynamic efficiency and that goes for either wankel rotary engines or your everyday piston engine.  Lets be clear about something, I like rotary's. I am under no illusion that they are 100% superior to a piston engine. I think that they are much better for a racing motor, but a piston engine has a significant advantage as a day to day A to B engine.
  • Frikgeek
    Frikgeek 3 года назад (изменено) +The real doktorbimmer The only way you're getting 200hp per litre today is with a massive turbocharger. There are no NA engines that can do that. And speaking of Wankels, the R26B in the Mazda 787B Le Mans car was a 2.6L capable of up to 900hp. That's 346 hp per litre and it was naturally aspirated.
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @Frikgeek Also was to date, the only engine banned from that racing series.
  • Lancelot Ling
    Lancelot Ling 3 года назад +n3kbrEak3r not exactly 1.3L because when you counts the maximum volume in the rotary engine, it's up to 3L
  • DC BigTurbo
    DC BigTurbo 3 года назад +Lancelot Ling it would be equivalent to a 3.9L 6 cylinder.
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 3 года назад +The real doktorbimmer rx vision. look it up. rumored to have a 2.0l turbo wankel...and pass emissions standards.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter That would be very cool if it was real... but its not. The RX-Vision is just a Concept and its engine does not exist.
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад don't worry, it's gonna happen. actually it already happened.
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 3 года назад its not a concept. Mazda announced at the Tokyo motor show that they have all the body panels ready for mass production as it appears when they revealed it. i know the engine is just a rumor, but either way they are planning big power for the car. they have also announced that it will have a 285 rear tire, which is huge compared to what Mazda has done in the past.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter No, they did not.. they unveiled the RX-Vision as a "CONCEPT" car and have never said that the design actually exists or has been approved for production.. Mazda's CEO has stated officially that Mazda will no longer manufacture cars with Wankel engines.
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 3 года назад http://www.caranddriver.com/news/mazda-rx-vision-concept-debuts-in-tokyo-news give this a good read. the specs are pretty precise for "just a concept".
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 3 года назад http://www.leftlanenews.com/mazda-exec-hints-at-production-rx-for-2017-90243.html also this little bit about their new skyactive rotary that the mazda exec talked about. why would mazda develop a rotary that can pass all the emission tests and not use it?
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter Likely cost
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Mazda lost a staggering sum of money on the RX-8 fiasco... nearly bankrupted the company completely..
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer Lol no they lost a staggering amount of money when they offered rotary engines in 90% of their lineup, during the 1979 energy crisis. Roataries are great performance motor but they do have serious shortfalls in non performance applications. I love em, but they aren't perfect.
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад +The real doktorbimmer just keep talking bullshit. the more lies you tell, the more obvious it is, that you actually have no idea.have fun, despite never expiriencing the really good stuff, because of your prejudices!
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Mazda lost a staggering sum of cash for 4 straight years starting in 2008 with a loss of $350 million USD and ending in 2012 with a loss of 1.5 Billion USD The RX-8 in particular fell well short of expectation with an estimated financial loss of 700 million dollars in development and production costs, post sale liabilities (recalls and warranty claims) and legals expenses.. It was one of the least profitable models in the companies history..
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Just the facts here kid..I don't make excuses for other people's ignorance.. get your story straight and you won't look like a fool.. or a troll like you.
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer i'm not telling storys, you are.please back it up with a link. you claimed that mazda almost went bankrupt because of the rx8, but your figures where only US ones, where they offered extented warranty, and they might be pulled out of your ass. the car was sold worldwide, mazda is doing fine, there will be another rotary very soon. i'm probably old enough to be your father, and maybe i am your father, kid. i regret that i wasn't there to teach you manners.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад (изменено) @Gehtdi anschasau maybe you should check your facts before you continue to make a complete fool of yourself
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад +The real doktorbimmer what facts? you told "facts" i simply asked you to back them up. i also didn't choose to get personal, you did by callig me "fool, kid, troll, ignorant,... " back it up, it should be easy since your figures are supposed to be facts.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Your welcome to make an attempt to disprove my facts... the onus is on you..
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau You still have lot to learn son...
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Run along kid... go troll elsewhere.
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад i simply can't find any figures, but you say you found them so please share. i find it hard to believe that they'd have build this car so long, and even updated it, if it was such a disaster that it almost drove mazda bankrupt. So who's the one trolling here?
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau How ironic... Clearly you are.
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад Why would you refuse such a simple request? it's your responsibility since your statement defies all logic and you could end all discussions and proof that i'm the fool, kid, troll,... you claim i am. why wouldn't you just take 2 minutes to clarify it all, instead of discussing it with me endlessly, when you think that i'm the one trolling? You don't, because you pulled it out off your ass, that's why. Any real answer to that or just avoiding everything uncomfortable again?
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Clearly you lack the ability comprehend the information and that you intentions are clearly that of a belligerent troll.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Because you clear lack the ability to present an intelligent argument.. you are just a troll
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer i simply doubt the "information", because it lacks logic an proof and everything els that make it any more thn a blatant lie. i made a couple of arguments and you simply replied with insults. ;) again: who's the troll here. Gotta do something now, We'll argue later, or at least i will. you go think of some more creative insults, please.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau Its very apparent that you lack the educational background or a functional understanding of the concept of "Argument-Counter Argument"
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau The onus is on you.. I stand by all of my comments as 100% factual and true..
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 3 года назад @The real doktorbimmer you called your bullshit "facts" i argued about it. two completely diferent words with different meanings (google it)! who lacks what here? you won' divert me tough with further insults. you could easily shut me up, you just need to spend 2 minutes to proof your bullshit "facts". you called me troll, you told me off, wouldn't it be so much easier? Why don't you? because you pulled it all out of your ass, that's why.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 3 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau You sure sound like a troll.. Lol!
  • Gehtdi anschasau
    Gehtdi anschasau 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer i achieved what i wanted to do. nobody is gonna avoid this awesome car because of your lies now. goodbye.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @Gehtdi anschasau TROLL..
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer thats not how this works. you made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter The facts stand on their own merit.. the burden is on you to attempt to disprove something that is factually true..
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter If you cannot form a comprehensible or logical counter argument? Then you are either simply too lazy or uneducated to understand otherwise.. in other words just another mindless troll..
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer a statement does not become a fact just because you say it is. YOU must provide the proof in order to deem your statement a fact. The burden of proof is on you. asking the other party to disprove your statement without even providing any source to confirm your statement is idiotic. for example, I now claim that I made 5 million dollars last year. prove me wrong. if you cant then i am correct by your logic.
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer Yup, not able to find a single claim on how much they made or lost on the RX8. The fact of the matter is that in the 80's Mazda was either gonna go bankrupt or be bought up. Ford nabbed them and both companies have been building better cars since. What I don't understand is why you seem so keen on pointing out the rotaries flaws... no one claimed it was the best engine in the world. Most people agree that it is at least an interesting engine, and fans of it attest to the fact that it is an excellent performance engine. Obviously it has shortfalls, but anyone with common sense realizes that. You don't buy a supercharged v8 when you want to hit 40mpg on the highway.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @Joseph Carprpenter No I am correct.. by logic, if you do not possess the ability or intelligence to form a declaration and then present an argument to support it? Then you have no credibility to challenge my statement... you do not have the knowledge or information on the topic to refute my facts.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Stupid or lazy? I suspect youre both but I will let you answer for yourself
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer Cute insults, why don't you provide a link or two, since you have listed absolutely no sources. I have no issue whatsoever admitting that I could be wrong about that but I'm not going to waste my time trying to see if your outrageous claims are even in the slightest bit accurate as you are clearly biased on this topic. Lets do this instead: name one engine that is in every way superior to a rotary for a racing application. One caveat. it also has to have been mass produced and used in at least one street legal car.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Funny, I was thinking the same about you.. lots of "cute" comments but nothing of substance to support your theories... and nothing that disputes the facts here.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 The "Rotary" was only ever used in one street legal car model.. the Adams-Farwell.. I think you meant to say WANKEL?
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer You are arguing semantics. Please come back when you have a real argument.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад @DoomsdayMelody91 Dude seriously.. go troll somewhere else.. next time pick something easy.. that you actually know something about OoooKayy?
  • Joseph Carprpenter
    Joseph Carprpenter 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer no that's a radial engine lol. rotary and Wankel are synonyms considering a Wankel uses a ROTOR.
  • DoomsdayMelody91
    DoomsdayMelody91 2 года назад @The real doktorbimmer This, coming from the guy who makes erroneous claims about engines, and refuses to make a valid argument about said claims... Well I'll just say this: He isn't the only one who appears to be foolish.
  • lobsterbark
    lobsterbark 2 года назад Rotaries don't do that, though.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад Yeah... its a 3.9 liter with 200hp.. and with the MPGs of a car that makes 600hp!
  • Theman703
    Theman703 2 года назад 2.6 NA with 231 HP is quite a feat.
  • Nate Higgers
    Nate Higgers 2 года назад n3kbrEak3r well its rotary.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад +Joseph Carprpenter Mazda's CEO revealed RX-9 is an internet hoax.. confirms there is no RX-9 or plans to build another RX sports car. http://www.mazda-motors.com/news/mazda-says-no-to-rotary-engine-and-larger-sports-car/
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад +Theman703 Yeah, quite a feat in the 1950s... but that was over 60 years ago...
  • Jeffiekins
    Jeffiekins 2 года назад Mine makes enough horsepower that all I need to do to throw it into a drift is downshift to 2nd, stomp on it, and countersteer. On regular. With good gas, I have to feather the throttle in 2nd if I don't want to buy new tires weekly. Don't forget, it only weighs 3,000 lbs. That's like a loaded Civic, but it's got 225-235 HP.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад +Jeffiekins But the Honda doesn't have a 3.9 liter engine like the Mazda..
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад +Jeffiekins "but it's got 225-235 HP." Yeah but its only got 159 lb-ft of torque and nothing down low...
  • Gábor Angyal
    Gábor Angyal 2 года назад yeah you need to rev it...and it does sound amazing when reved from 5000to 9500 rpm
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer 2 года назад +Gábor Angyal yeah, rev it to let the sound and the apex seals out...
  • J Ā K E -Æ8
    J Ā K E -Æ8 2 года назад n3kbrEak3r lol
  • Rodrigo Palazzo
    Rodrigo Palazzo 2 года назад n3kbrEak3r : its a 1.3l and it waste more fuel than a 5.0l camaro. also by the time it will produce low compression and it also burn oil naturally. if its cold outside it will not start
  • benji woo
    benji woo Год назад Why you still replying a year later. Get a life or maybe out of your mommies basement and get some fresh air.
  • DGM
    DGM Год назад benji woo Why are you replying to a comments that's a year old?
  • Kay Jackson
    Kay Jackson Год назад DGalacticMan why is thy replying to reply to a comment that's a year olde
  • Some Weeb
    Some Weeb Год назад The 2.6L makes like, 900 HP.
  • Rodrigo Palazzo
    Rodrigo Palazzo Год назад Some Weeb: yes but it waste a ton of fuel... it uses the worst engine ever created. because burns oil naturally and the oil mix with the fuel and exaust gases, it produces low compression. its not a reliable engine
  • Mark Bowyer
    Mark Bowyer Год назад Yet it's still one of the most fun cars to drive. Lazy assholes who can't be bothered to check their oil once a week, gave this car a bad rep. If you aren't an idiot they can be extremely rewarding to own.
  • time drifter
    time drifter Год назад n3kbrEak3r imigine a hydrogen 2.7l
  • BenMJay
    BenMJay Год назад 1.3 with 238hp. Auto had 200hp. Manual 238hp
  • VestedUTuber
    VestedUTuber Год назад +doktorbimmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance You've been continuing to insist on people disproving your claim, rather than providing data backing it. Couple that with the constant ad hominem attacks, and honestly, as an observer to this debate I do not believe you have a solid position.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer Год назад +VestedUTuber I invite you to go down to your local Mazda dealer and ask the salesman to see the new RX models....
  • VestedUTuber
    VestedUTuber Год назад (изменено) +doktorbimmer I kindly request that you do not attempt to drag me into the debate with red herrings. I was commenting on your claim that Mazda lost a large sum of money over the RX-8 specifically. Regardless of whether it's true or not, you have done a TERRIBLE job at trying to back your claims, and as such you have no credibility. Also, just curious, but why do you constantly bold your posts entirely? You were doing that on the other comment thread and now you're doing it here. There's no reason to do so.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer Год назад +VestedUTuber Its not a claim, ITS A FACT... Mazda no longer manufacturers Wankel engines or the RX brand... this is an irrefutable fact that can be easily proven conclusively by visiting your local Mazda dealer.
  • doktorbimmer
    doktorbimmer Год назад +VestedUTuber One only has to look at RX sales figures to see that it TANKED!!!! big time... or the fact that the RX brand sales coincided with Mazda's mounting debt and dissolution of their partnership with Ford over this colossal blunder... Mazda became insolvent and required a 3 billion dollar government backed bailout loan, the firing of then president Hisakazu Imaki and several veteran executives, and the new boards emergency vote in May 2009 to cancel further development of Wankel engines and set a dead line to permanently cease all production no later than 2013.